666 confuzia secolului

În prealabil postat de AlinB

Da, dar asta nu inseamna ca nu e posibil si reversul "megaconvertirii".
Aici este tragedia, aici e durerea..

Zici "Da" si anulezi apoi. Ce treaba e asta?

[AlinB]

În prealabil postat de Anca-Miha

Zici "Da" si anulezi apoi. Ce treaba e asta?

Nu m-ai inteles.
Un om, fie el convertit poate avea caderi daca nu se smereste si pe parcurs se ingamfa cu ideea convertirii sale, ca inainte era un nimeni (dpdv duhovnicesc) iar acum este "cineva".
Sansa de a te mentine pe linia de plutire este data de smerenie, sa te consideri mereu pe linia zero..

Dumneaei a cam parasit linia asta, si asta se vede din modul agresiv cum ridica probleme care nu le cunoaste aproape deloc lovind in dreapta si stanga cand evident ar avea mult mai multe lucruri sa si le reproseze inainte de toate.

Cam multa judecata, Aline, nu crezi?!? Mai intai sa ne smerim noi si apoi sa vorbim de cineva, care a facut 3000 de metanii pe zi. Sa-I lasam lui Dumnezeu judecata si noi sa fim cu smerenia, ce zici?

[AlinB]

În prealabil postat de Anca-Miha

Cam multa judecata, Aline, nu crezi?!? Mai intai sa ne smerim noi si apoi sa vorbim de cineva, care a facut 3000 de metanii pe zi. Sa-I lasam lui Dumnezeu judecata si noi sa fim cu smerenia, ce zici?

Le-ai numarat tu?

Da, le-am numarat.
Dar spune-mi te rog: tu esti Mirean sau fratele lui Mirean? Dupa stil este el in persoana...
Stii cum se zice: lupul isi schimba blana...

[AlinB]

În prealabil postat de Anca-Miha

Da, le-am numarat.
Dar spune-mi te rog: tu esti Mirean sau fratele lui Mirean? Dupa stil este el in persoana...
Stii cum se zice: lupul isi schimba blana...

Nu stiu cine e respectivul dar din reactia ta s-ar putea sa-mi faca placere sa-l cunosc.

În prealabil postat de AlinB

Nu stiu cine e respectivul dar din reactia ta s-ar putea sa-mi faca placere sa-l cunosc.

Extraordinar! Si nici nu a fost nevoie sa scriu ca pentru tine era mesajul. PAi atunci cauta o oglinda!

[COLOR=black]The beast from the sea that had received plenitude of power from the dragon, or [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Satan[/COLOR][COLOR=black], is the Roman Empire, or rather, Caesar, its supreme representative. The token of the beast with which its servants are marked is the image of the emperor on the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]coins[/COLOR][COLOR=black] of the realm. This seems to be the obvious meaning of the passage, that all business transactions, all buying and selling were impossible to them that had not the mark of the beast ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]Apocalypse 13:17[/COLOR][COLOR=black]). Against this interpretation it is objected that the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jews[/COLOR][COLOR=black] at the time of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christ[/COLOR][COLOR=black] had no scruple in handling money on which the image of Caesar was stamped ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]Matthew 22:15-22[/COLOR][COLOR=black]). But it should be borne in mind that the horror of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jews[/COLOR][COLOR=black] for the imperial images was principally due to the policy of Caligula. He confiscated several of their [/COLOR][COLOR=black]synagogues[/COLOR][COLOR=black], changing them into [/COLOR][COLOR=black]heathen[/COLOR][COLOR=black]temples[/COLOR][COLOR=black] by placing his [/COLOR][COLOR=black]statue[/COLOR][COLOR=black] in them. He even sought to erect an image of himself in the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Temple of Jerusalem[/COLOR][COLOR=black] ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]Josephus[/COLOR][COLOR=black], Ant., XVIII, viii, 2). [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]The seven heads of the beast are seven emperors. Five of them the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] says are fallen. They are [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Augustus Tiberius[/COLOR][COLOR=black], Caligula, Claudius, and [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. The year of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero's[/COLOR][COLOR=black] death is A.D. 68. The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] goes on to say "One is", namely [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Vespasian[/COLOR][COLOR=black], A.D. 70-79. He is the sixth emperor. The seventh, we are told by the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black], "is not yet come. But when he comes his reign will be short". Titus is meant, who reigned but two years (79-81). The eighth emperor is [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Domitian[/COLOR][COLOR=black] (81-96). Of him the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] has something very peculiar to say. He is identified with the beast. He is described as the one that "was and is not and shall come up out of the bottomless pit" ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]17:8[/COLOR][COLOR=black]). In [/COLOR][COLOR=black]verse 11[/COLOR][COLOR=black] it is added: "And the beast which was and is not: the same also is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into destruction". [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]All this sounds like [/COLOR][COLOR=black]oracular[/COLOR][COLOR=black] language. But the clue to its solution is furnished by a popular [/COLOR][COLOR=black]belief[/COLOR][COLOR=black] largely spread at the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]time[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. The death of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black] had been [/COLOR][COLOR=black]witnessed[/COLOR][COLOR=black] by few. Chiefly in the East a notion had taken hold of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]mind[/COLOR][COLOR=black] of the people that [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black] was still alive. [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Gentiles[/COLOR][COLOR=black], [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jews[/COLOR][COLOR=black], and [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christians[/COLOR][COLOR=black] were under the illusion that he was hiding himself, and as was commonly thought, he had gone over to the Parthians, the most troublesome foes of the empire. From there they expected him to return at the head of a mighty army to avenge himself on his enemies. The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]existence[/COLOR][COLOR=black] of this fanciful [/COLOR][COLOR=black]belief[/COLOR][COLOR=black] is a well-attested historic fact. Tacitus speaks of it: "Achaia atque Asia falso exterrit velut Nero adventaret, vario super ejus exitu rumore eoque pluribus vivere eum fingentibus credentibusque" (Hist., II, 8). So also Dio Chrysostomus: kai nyn (about A.D. 100) eti pantes epithymousi zen oi de pleistoi kai oiontai (Orat., 21, 10; cf. Suetonius, "Vit. Caes."; s.v. [/COLOR][COLOR=black]NERO[/COLOR][COLOR=black] and the SIBYLINE ORACLES). Thus the contemporaries of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black]believed[/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black] to be alive and expected his return. The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] either shared their [/COLOR][COLOR=black]belief[/COLOR][COLOR=black] or utilized it for his own purpose. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black] had made a name for himself by his cruelty and licentiousness. The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christians[/COLOR][COLOR=black] in particular had reason to dread him. Under him the first [/COLOR][COLOR=black]persecution[/COLOR][COLOR=black] took place. The second occurred under [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Domitian[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. But unlike the previous one, it was not confined to [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Italy[/COLOR][COLOR=black], but spread throughout the provinces. Many [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christians[/COLOR][COLOR=black] were put to death, many were banished ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]Eusebius[/COLOR][COLOR=black], [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Church History III.17-19[/COLOR][COLOR=black]). In this way the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] was led to regard [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Domitian[/COLOR][COLOR=black] as a second [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black], "Nero redivivus". Hence he described him as "the one that was, that is not, and that is to return". Hence also he counts him as the eighth and at the same time makes him one of the preceding seven, viz. the fifth, [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. The identification of the two emperors suggested itself all the more readily since even [/COLOR][COLOR=black]pagan[/COLOR][COLOR=black] authors called [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Domitian[/COLOR][COLOR=black] a second [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black] (calvus Nero, Juvenal. IV, 38). The popular [/COLOR][COLOR=black]belief[/COLOR][COLOR=black] concerning [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero's[/COLOR][COLOR=black] death and return seems to be referred to also in the passage ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]13:3[/COLOR][COLOR=black]): "And I saw one of its heads as it were slain to death: and its death's wound was healed". [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]The ten horns are commonly explained as the vassal rulers under the supremacy of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Rome[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. They are described as kings (basileis), here to be taken in a wider sense, that they are not real kings, but received power to rule with the beast. Their power, moreover, is but for one hour, signifying its short duration and instability ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]17:17[/COLOR][COLOR=black]). The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] has marked the beast with the number 666. His purpose was that by this number people may [/COLOR][COLOR=black]know[/COLOR][COLOR=black] it. He that has understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. A [/COLOR][COLOR=black]human[/COLOR][COLOR=black] number, i.e. intelligible by the common rules of investigation. We have here an instance of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jewish[/COLOR][COLOR=black] gematria. Its object is to conceal a name by substituting for it a cipher of equal numerical value to the letters composing it. For a long [/COLOR][COLOR=black]time[/COLOR][COLOR=black] interpreters tried to decipher the number 666 by means of the Greek [/COLOR][COLOR=black]alphabet[/COLOR][COLOR=black], e.g. Irenæus, [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Against Heresies V.33[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. Their efforts have yielded no satisfactory result. Better success has been obtained by using the Hebrew [/COLOR][COLOR=black]alphabet[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. Many scholars have come to the conclusion that [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black] is meant. For when the name [/COLOR][COLOR=black]"Nero Caesar"[/COLOR][COLOR=black] is spelled with Hebrew letters, it yields the cipher 666. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]The second beast, that from the land, the pseudoprophet whose office was to assist the beast from the sea, probably signifies the work of seduction carried on by [/COLOR][COLOR=black]apostate[/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christians[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. They endeavoured to make their fellow [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christians[/COLOR][COLOR=black] adopt the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]heathen[/COLOR][COLOR=black] practices and submit themselves to the cultus of the Caesar. They are not unlikely the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nicolaitans[/COLOR][COLOR=black] of the seven [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Epistles[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. For they are there compared to [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Balaam[/COLOR][COLOR=black] and [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jezabel[/COLOR][COLOR=black] seducing the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Israelites[/COLOR][COLOR=black] to [/COLOR][COLOR=black]idolatry[/COLOR][COLOR=black] and fornication. The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]woman[/COLOR][COLOR=black] in travail is a personification of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]synagogue[/COLOR][COLOR=black] or the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]church[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. Her [/COLOR][COLOR=black]first-born[/COLOR][COLOR=black] is [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christ[/COLOR][COLOR=black], her other seed is the community of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]faithful[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. [/COLOR]



[COLOR=black]In this interpretation, of which we have given a summary, there are two difficulties: [/COLOR]

• [COLOR=black]In the enumeration of the emperors three are passed over, viz. Galba, [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Otho[/COLOR][COLOR=black], and [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Vitellius[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. But this omission may be explained by the shortness of their reigns. Each one of the three reigned but a few months. [/COLOR]
• [COLOR=black]Tradition[/COLOR][COLOR=black] assigns the Apocalypse to the reign of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Domitian[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. But according to the computation given above, the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] himself assigns his work to the reign of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Vespasian[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. For if this computation be correct, [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Vespasian[/COLOR][COLOR=black] is the emperor whom he designates as "the one that is". To this objection, however, it may be answered that it was the custom of apocalyptic writers, e.g., of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Daniel[/COLOR][COLOR=black], Enoch, and the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Sibylline books[/COLOR][COLOR=black], to cast their [/COLOR][COLOR=black]visions[/COLOR][COLOR=black] into the form of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]prophecies[/COLOR][COLOR=black] and give them the appearance of being the work of an earlier [/COLOR][COLOR=black]date[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. No literary [/COLOR][COLOR=black]fraud[/COLOR][COLOR=black] was thereby intended. It was merely a peculiar style of writing adopted as suiting their subject. The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] of the Apocalypse follows this practice. Though actually banished to [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Patmos[/COLOR][COLOR=black] in the reign of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Domitian[/COLOR][COLOR=black], after the destruction of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jerusalem[/COLOR][COLOR=black], he wrote as if he had been there and seen his [/COLOR][COLOR=black]visions[/COLOR][COLOR=black] in the reign of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Vespasian[/COLOR][COLOR=black] when the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]temple[/COLOR][COLOR=black] perhaps yet existed. Cf. [/COLOR][COLOR=black]2:1-2[/COLOR][COLOR=black].[/COLOR]

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