666 confuzia secolului

[Trandafir_Alb]

În prealabil postat de AlinB

Chiar nu inteleg motivele pentru care s-a facut caz de legea respectiva.

Dispozitivele medicale existau deja, erau folosite, s-a reglementat modul lor de folosire.

Problema care este?
Ah, da..am inteles, abia acum au aflat si crestinii nostri ca exista asa ceva si au zis ca n-ar fi rau sa o puna de un pretext si pe motivul asta..

Cand e deja lege treaba devine si mai grava.
"Crestinii nostri" chiar si cei care-au citit doar Apocalipsa stiau deja ce ne asteapta; mi se pare normal sa incerce sa-i avertizeze si pe ceilalti care-s ocupati cu alte chestiuni decat propria lor siguranta si sanatate.
Mi se pare incredibil ca nici n-a inceput bine anul 2009 si s-au inghesuit sa adopte legi absurde ca : legea pasapoartelor biometrice, a buletinelor cu cip, a organismelor modificate genetic, cele 4 coduri...Tare-as vrea sa stiu de exemplu care au fost TOATE conditiile impuse de FMI pentru acel vestit imprumut. Probabil adoptarea legilor enumerate mai sus...

[AlinB]

În prealabil postat de Trandafir_Alb

Cand e deja lege treaba devine si mai grava.
"Crestinii nostri" chiar si cei care-au citit doar Apocalipsa stiau deja ce ne asteapta; mi se pare normal sa incerce sa-i avertizeze si pe ceilalti care-s ocupati cu alte chestiuni decat propria lor siguranta si sanatate.
Mi se pare incredibil ca nici n-a inceput bine anul 2009 si s-au inghesuit sa adopte legi absurde ca : legea pasapoartelor biometrice, a buletinelor cu cip, a organismelor modificate genetic, cele 4 coduri...Tare-as vrea sa stiu de exemplu care au fost TOATE conditiile impuse de FMI pentru acel vestit imprumut. Probabil adoptarea legilor enumerate mai sus...

Si totusi nu ai lamurit care e problema cu edispozitivele mediale implantabile.

Depinde asupra ce incerca sa avertizeze pana la urma, ca modul in care o fac si argumenteaza arata mai degraba panica si confuzie in mintea lor..

[Trandafir_Alb]

În prealabil postat de AlinB

Si totusi nu ai lamurit care e problema cu edispozitivele mediale implantabile.

Depinde asupra ce incerca sa avertizeze pana la urma, ca modul in care o fac si argumenteaza arata mai degraba panica si confuzie in mintea lor..

Care-i problema? Hmmm.....
In lege scrie asa:
- " dispozitiv medical - bla bla - folosit pentru om in scop de: diagnosticare, prevenire, monitorizare, tratament sau ameliorare a unei afectiuni". Pai stai asa, exista 100000 de boli, cipul asta ma fereste de ele (prevenire)?? Am o raceala, de cand il intereseaza pe medicul meu de familie (sa zicem ca el ma monitorizeaza) in ce stadiu sunt cu raceala (monitorizare)? Am deja cancer, vine un cip si ma vindeca sau mai distruge din celulele canceroase (tratament si ameliorare)? Daca-mi spui ca da, pe cuvant ca nu te cred.

- "diagnosticare, monitorizare, tratament, ameliorare sau compensare a unei leziuni ori a unui handicap". Toate astea le face un cip? Sa fim seriosi...

- "investigare, inlocuire sau modificare a anatomiei ori a unui proces fiziologic". Inlocuire ?? Un cip pentru un rinichi?

- "control al conceptiei". Asta a pus capac!

- "dispozitiv medical activ – orice dispozitiv medical a carui functionare se bazeaza pe o sursa de energie electrica sau pe orice sursa de putere, alta decat aceea generata direct de organismul uman sau de gravitatie". Sursa de energie electrica exterioara...nu esti cuminte, se apasa pe butonul de shut down, nu?

Scuza-mi limbajul deloc profesionist, dar oricate legi s-ar mai adopta in acest sens, oricati termeni medicali s-ar folosi ca sa fie convins omul ca "e ceva serios dom'le, ia uita-te unde-a ajuns tehnologia asta", tot degeaba, nu as gasi utilitatea unui astfel de cip nici in 1000 de ani si m-am exprimat ca atare
De legatura dintre Biblie/Apocalipsa si un astfel de element de monitorizare nu mai pomenesc ca o stii deja.

[COLOR=black]The beast from the sea that had received plenitude of power from the dragon, or [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Satan[/COLOR][COLOR=black], is the Roman Empire, or rather, Caesar, its supreme representative. The token of the beast with which its servants are marked is the image of the emperor on the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]coins[/COLOR][COLOR=black] of the realm. This seems to be the obvious meaning of the passage, that all business transactions, all buying and selling were impossible to them that had not the mark of the beast ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]Apocalypse 13:17[/COLOR][COLOR=black]). Against this interpretation it is objected that the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jews[/COLOR][COLOR=black] at the time of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christ[/COLOR][COLOR=black] had no scruple in handling money on which the image of Caesar was stamped ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]Matthew 22:15-22[/COLOR][COLOR=black]). But it should be borne in mind that the horror of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jews[/COLOR][COLOR=black] for the imperial images was principally due to the policy of Caligula. He confiscated several of their [/COLOR][COLOR=black]synagogues[/COLOR][COLOR=black], changing them into [/COLOR][COLOR=black]heathen[/COLOR][COLOR=black]temples[/COLOR][COLOR=black] by placing his [/COLOR][COLOR=black]statue[/COLOR][COLOR=black] in them. He even sought to erect an image of himself in the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Temple of Jerusalem[/COLOR][COLOR=black] ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]Josephus[/COLOR][COLOR=black], Ant., XVIII, viii, 2). [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]The seven heads of the beast are seven emperors. Five of them the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] says are fallen. They are [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Augustus Tiberius[/COLOR][COLOR=black], Caligula, Claudius, and [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. The year of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero's[/COLOR][COLOR=black] death is A.D. 68. The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] goes on to say "One is", namely [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Vespasian[/COLOR][COLOR=black], A.D. 70-79. He is the sixth emperor. The seventh, we are told by the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black], "is not yet come. But when he comes his reign will be short". Titus is meant, who reigned but two years (79-81). The eighth emperor is [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Domitian[/COLOR][COLOR=black] (81-96). Of him the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] has something very peculiar to say. He is identified with the beast. He is described as the one that "was and is not and shall come up out of the bottomless pit" ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]17:8[/COLOR][COLOR=black]). In [/COLOR][COLOR=black]verse 11[/COLOR][COLOR=black] it is added: "And the beast which was and is not: the same also is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into destruction". [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]All this sounds like [/COLOR][COLOR=black]oracular[/COLOR][COLOR=black] language. But the clue to its solution is furnished by a popular [/COLOR][COLOR=black]belief[/COLOR][COLOR=black] largely spread at the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]time[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. The death of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black] had been [/COLOR][COLOR=black]witnessed[/COLOR][COLOR=black] by few. Chiefly in the East a notion had taken hold of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]mind[/COLOR][COLOR=black] of the people that [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black] was still alive. [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Gentiles[/COLOR][COLOR=black], [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jews[/COLOR][COLOR=black], and [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christians[/COLOR][COLOR=black] were under the illusion that he was hiding himself, and as was commonly thought, he had gone over to the Parthians, the most troublesome foes of the empire. From there they expected him to return at the head of a mighty army to avenge himself on his enemies. The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]existence[/COLOR][COLOR=black] of this fanciful [/COLOR][COLOR=black]belief[/COLOR][COLOR=black] is a well-attested historic fact. Tacitus speaks of it: "Achaia atque Asia falso exterrit velut Nero adventaret, vario super ejus exitu rumore eoque pluribus vivere eum fingentibus credentibusque" (Hist., II, 8). So also Dio Chrysostomus: kai nyn (about A.D. 100) eti pantes epithymousi zen oi de pleistoi kai oiontai (Orat., 21, 10; cf. Suetonius, "Vit. Caes."; s.v. [/COLOR][COLOR=black]NERO[/COLOR][COLOR=black] and the SIBYLINE ORACLES). Thus the contemporaries of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black]believed[/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black] to be alive and expected his return. The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] either shared their [/COLOR][COLOR=black]belief[/COLOR][COLOR=black] or utilized it for his own purpose. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black] had made a name for himself by his cruelty and licentiousness. The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christians[/COLOR][COLOR=black] in particular had reason to dread him. Under him the first [/COLOR][COLOR=black]persecution[/COLOR][COLOR=black] took place. The second occurred under [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Domitian[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. But unlike the previous one, it was not confined to [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Italy[/COLOR][COLOR=black], but spread throughout the provinces. Many [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christians[/COLOR][COLOR=black] were put to death, many were banished ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]Eusebius[/COLOR][COLOR=black], [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Church History III.17-19[/COLOR][COLOR=black]). In this way the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] was led to regard [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Domitian[/COLOR][COLOR=black] as a second [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black], "Nero redivivus". Hence he described him as "the one that was, that is not, and that is to return". Hence also he counts him as the eighth and at the same time makes him one of the preceding seven, viz. the fifth, [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. The identification of the two emperors suggested itself all the more readily since even [/COLOR][COLOR=black]pagan[/COLOR][COLOR=black] authors called [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Domitian[/COLOR][COLOR=black] a second [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black] (calvus Nero, Juvenal. IV, 38). The popular [/COLOR][COLOR=black]belief[/COLOR][COLOR=black] concerning [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero's[/COLOR][COLOR=black] death and return seems to be referred to also in the passage ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]13:3[/COLOR][COLOR=black]): "And I saw one of its heads as it were slain to death: and its death's wound was healed". [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]The ten horns are commonly explained as the vassal rulers under the supremacy of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Rome[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. They are described as kings (basileis), here to be taken in a wider sense, that they are not real kings, but received power to rule with the beast. Their power, moreover, is but for one hour, signifying its short duration and instability ([/COLOR][COLOR=black]17:17[/COLOR][COLOR=black]). The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] has marked the beast with the number 666. His purpose was that by this number people may [/COLOR][COLOR=black]know[/COLOR][COLOR=black] it. He that has understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. A [/COLOR][COLOR=black]human[/COLOR][COLOR=black] number, i.e. intelligible by the common rules of investigation. We have here an instance of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jewish[/COLOR][COLOR=black] gematria. Its object is to conceal a name by substituting for it a cipher of equal numerical value to the letters composing it. For a long [/COLOR][COLOR=black]time[/COLOR][COLOR=black] interpreters tried to decipher the number 666 by means of the Greek [/COLOR][COLOR=black]alphabet[/COLOR][COLOR=black], e.g. Irenæus, [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Against Heresies V.33[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. Their efforts have yielded no satisfactory result. Better success has been obtained by using the Hebrew [/COLOR][COLOR=black]alphabet[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. Many scholars have come to the conclusion that [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nero[/COLOR][COLOR=black] is meant. For when the name [/COLOR][COLOR=black]"Nero Caesar"[/COLOR][COLOR=black] is spelled with Hebrew letters, it yields the cipher 666. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]The second beast, that from the land, the pseudoprophet whose office was to assist the beast from the sea, probably signifies the work of seduction carried on by [/COLOR][COLOR=black]apostate[/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christians[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. They endeavoured to make their fellow [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christians[/COLOR][COLOR=black] adopt the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]heathen[/COLOR][COLOR=black] practices and submit themselves to the cultus of the Caesar. They are not unlikely the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Nicolaitans[/COLOR][COLOR=black] of the seven [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Epistles[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. For they are there compared to [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Balaam[/COLOR][COLOR=black] and [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jezabel[/COLOR][COLOR=black] seducing the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Israelites[/COLOR][COLOR=black] to [/COLOR][COLOR=black]idolatry[/COLOR][COLOR=black] and fornication. The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]woman[/COLOR][COLOR=black] in travail is a personification of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]synagogue[/COLOR][COLOR=black] or the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]church[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. Her [/COLOR][COLOR=black]first-born[/COLOR][COLOR=black] is [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Christ[/COLOR][COLOR=black], her other seed is the community of the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]faithful[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. [/COLOR]



[COLOR=black]In this interpretation, of which we have given a summary, there are two difficulties: [/COLOR]

• [COLOR=black]In the enumeration of the emperors three are passed over, viz. Galba, [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Otho[/COLOR][COLOR=black], and [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Vitellius[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. But this omission may be explained by the shortness of their reigns. Each one of the three reigned but a few months. [/COLOR]
• [COLOR=black]Tradition[/COLOR][COLOR=black] assigns the Apocalypse to the reign of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Domitian[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. But according to the computation given above, the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] himself assigns his work to the reign of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Vespasian[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. For if this computation be correct, [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Vespasian[/COLOR][COLOR=black] is the emperor whom he designates as "the one that is". To this objection, however, it may be answered that it was the custom of apocalyptic writers, e.g., of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Daniel[/COLOR][COLOR=black], Enoch, and the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Sibylline books[/COLOR][COLOR=black], to cast their [/COLOR][COLOR=black]visions[/COLOR][COLOR=black] into the form of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]prophecies[/COLOR][COLOR=black] and give them the appearance of being the work of an earlier [/COLOR][COLOR=black]date[/COLOR][COLOR=black]. No literary [/COLOR][COLOR=black]fraud[/COLOR][COLOR=black] was thereby intended. It was merely a peculiar style of writing adopted as suiting their subject. The [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Seer[/COLOR][COLOR=black] of the Apocalypse follows this practice. Though actually banished to [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Patmos[/COLOR][COLOR=black] in the reign of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Domitian[/COLOR][COLOR=black], after the destruction of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Jerusalem[/COLOR][COLOR=black], he wrote as if he had been there and seen his [/COLOR][COLOR=black]visions[/COLOR][COLOR=black] in the reign of [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Vespasian[/COLOR][COLOR=black] when the [/COLOR][COLOR=black]temple[/COLOR][COLOR=black] perhaps yet existed. Cf. [/COLOR][COLOR=black]2:1-2[/COLOR][COLOR=black].[/COLOR]

O traducere a articolului ar fi utila pentru cei care nu stiu engleza.

În prealabil postat de topcat

Ce parere aveti despre aceasta interpretare?

Care este sursa acestei interpretari?

În prealabil postat de Anca-Miha

Care este sursa acestei interpretari?

Conteaza?
E o interpretare sa zicem istorica

[AlinB]

În prealabil postat de Trandafir_Alb

Cand e deja lege treaba devine si mai grava.
"Crestinii nostri" chiar si cei care-au citit doar Apocalipsa stiau deja ce ne asteapta; mi se pare normal sa incerce sa-i avertizeze si pe ceilalti care-s ocupati cu alte chestiuni decat propria lor siguranta si sanatate.
Mi se pare incredibil ca nici n-a inceput bine anul 2009 si s-au inghesuit sa adopte legi absurde ca : legea pasapoartelor biometrice, a buletinelor cu cip, a organismelor modificate genetic, cele 4 coduri...Tare-as vrea sa stiu de exemplu care au fost TOATE conditiile impuse de FMI pentru acel vestit imprumut. Probabil adoptarea legilor enumerate mai sus...

Spre Apocalipsa ne indreptam de 2000 ani de zile, Sf. Ap. Pavel credea cu toata convingera ca va veni in timpul sau, nimic rau in asta, toti suntem adventisti (in sensul asta) doar abordarea este aiuristica.

Legea pasapoartelor biometrice si a "actelor cu cip" nu este absurda, implentarea ei este cea care o face inutila, a face din toata povestea asta o chestiune apocaliptica si problema de credinta, aici e buba.

[AlinB]

În prealabil postat de Trandafir_Alb

Care-i problema? Hmmm.....
In lege scrie asa:
- " dispozitiv medical - bla bla - folosit pentru om in scop de: diagnosticare, prevenire, monitorizare, tratament sau ameliorare a unei afectiuni". Pai stai asa, exista 100000 de boli, cipul asta ma fereste de ele (prevenire)?? Am o raceala, de cand il intereseaza pe medicul meu de familie (sa zicem ca el ma monitorizeaza) in ce stadiu sunt cu raceala (monitorizare)? Am deja cancer, vine un cip si ma vindeca sau mai distruge din celulele canceroase (tratament si ameliorare)? Daca-mi spui ca da, pe cuvant ca nu te cred.

Uite cum isi arata coltzii paranoia cipului, chiar in ceea ce scrii.
Dar unde scrie ca dispozitiv medical = musai cip ???

Si unde scrie in randurile de mai sus ca astfel de dispozitive sunt menite a-ti trata tie raceala sau cancerul?

Ce este mai sus este o definitie generica ca imaginatia ta probabil nu face fatza in a gasi niste exemple rezonabile (decat cipul care te obsedeaza) este problema ta.

Dar zic mai bine sa intrebi un medic ca sa vii cu picioarele pe pamant.
Ca pe mine oricum nu m-ai crede.

Dar poate nici pe el nu l-ai crede ci doar un calugar si musai sa fie de la Petru Voda, acolo este autoritatea ultima in materie de cipuri si dispozitive medicale implantabile.
Sau pe Mihai Rapcea (MISA+Noua Dreapta) ca si el e mare guru in materie de dispozitive medicale implantabile.

- "diagnosticare, monitorizare, tratament, ameliorare sau compensare a unei leziuni ori a unui handicap". Toate astea le face un cip? Sa fim seriosi...

Exact ce ziceam mai sus. Obsesia cipului..

[SIZE=3]Dar de proteze ai auzit?
[/SIZE]

- "investigare, inlocuire sau modificare a anatomiei ori a unui proces fiziologic". Inlocuire ?? Un cip pentru un rinichi?

[SIZE=3]De pacemaker, inima artificiala, ai auzit?
[/SIZE]

- "control al conceptiei". Asta a pus capac!

Pai sigur, cineva care traieste in evul mediul al paranoii apocaliptice n-a auzit in viata lui de sterilet..
Doar de cipuri.

- "dispozitiv medical activ – orice dispozitiv medical a carui functionare se bazeaza pe o sursa de energie electrica sau pe orice sursa de putere, alta decat aceea generata direct de organismul uman sau de gravitatie". Sursa de energie electrica exterioara...nu esti cuminte, se apasa pe butonul de shut down, nu?

Daca ai o imaginatie asa bogata..sigur ca orice e posibil.

Eu iti zic sa vezi cu ce se mananca un pacemarker de exemplu:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_pacemaker

[quote ]Scuza-mi limbajul deloc profesionist, dar oricate legi s-ar mai adopta in acest sens, oricati termeni medicali s-ar folosi ca sa fie convins omul ca "e ceva serios dom'le, ia uita-te unde-a ajuns tehnologia asta", tot degeaba, nu as gasi utilitatea unui astfel de cip nici in 1000 de ani si m-am exprimat ca atare [/quote]

Limbajul se poate scuza, gandirea nu.

Dupa cum prea bine se vede, nu sunteti decat masa de manevra, e de ajuns sa urle un isteric si va isterizati si voi cot la cot cu el.

Si cred ca asta ti-ar putea fi spre ajutor si dez-dezinformare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_device

De legatura dintre Biblie/Apocalipsa si un astfel de element de monitorizare nu mai pomenesc ca o stii deja.

Care este legatura din capul celor ca tine, o stiu, este destul de vizibila.
Care este in realiate, asta e problema, ca astea doua nu se prea suprapun.