Forum Crestin Ortodox Crestin Ortodox
 
 


Du-te înapoi   Forum Crestin Ortodox > Biserica Ortodoxa si alte religii > Alte Religii
Răspunde
 
Thread Tools Moduri de afișare
  #1  
Vechi 11.04.2012, 13:23:14
catalin2 catalin2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 26.12.2007
Locație: Brasov
Religia: Ortodox
Mesaje: 9.706
Implicit

Citat:
În prealabil postat de florin.oltean75 Vezi mesajul
1. Intentia este aceea pur de a informa si a schimba idei intr-un context deschis, bazat pe rationament si bun simt, care sa nu fie pus sub presiunea dogmei (impuneri incontestabile ale unor adevaruri care nu suporta critici si obiectii)

Din punctul meu de vedere este normal sa nu te intereseze alte pareri care nu rezoneaza cu propriile trairi. Dar de aici si pana la "panica", apreciez ca este o reactie nefireasca - chiar daca foarte predictibila.
Nu deranjeaza pe cineva sa fie si mesaje care descriu alte religii, chiar si pagane.
Problema (doar pentru tine, noi nu suntem afectati) e ca tu chiar crezi in aceste conceptii, nu doar le prezinti, ai imbratisat conceptiile new-age, te poti gandi si tu daca sunt bune sau nu.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Vechi 11.04.2012, 18:58:53
florin.oltean75's Avatar
florin.oltean75 florin.oltean75 is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 23.03.2011
Religia: Ortodox
Mesaje: 2.933
Implicit

Citat:
În prealabil postat de catalin2 Vezi mesajul
Nu deranjeaza pe cineva sa fie si mesaje care descriu alte religii, chiar si pagane.
Problema (doar pentru tine, noi nu suntem afectati) e ca tu chiar crezi in aceste conceptii, nu doar le prezinti, ai imbratisat conceptiile new-age, te poti gandi si tu daca sunt bune sau nu.
Eu nu cunosc conceptii New Age.
Nu am citit asa ceva - asa ca nu ma pot pronunta cu privire la acest subiect.

Ceea ce scriu sunt extrase din texte budiste clasice cum sunt Abhidharma, Bodisattvaciariavatara (Modul de a fi al unui Bodhisattva) scrisa de Shantideva si Bodhipathapradipam (Lampa pe calea catre iluminare) scrisa de Atisha.

Pentru ca este propovaduit altruismul, dragostea pentru toate fiintele fara exceptie, jertfa pentru aproapele precum si modul in care trebuie corectata mintea pentru a fi integri (gandul aliniat cu fapta), nu vad de ce ar fi periculoase.

Daca imi oferi o argumentare de bun simt in acest sens, ti-as fi recunoscator.

Isus spunea:

"Cine sunt fratii, surorile si mama mea? Cei care fac faptele mele." (poate ca citatul este inexact)

Eu cred in Isus cu tot sufletul - dar doresc sa pot face si faptele Lui.

Se spune: iubeste pe apropele tau ca pe tine insuti!

Dar nu se spune cum se ajunge la aceasta virtute suprema in zgomotul lumii.

Avem doar indemnuri - insa fara metode ale mintii.

Muzica bisericeasca, acatistele, slujbele sunt instrumente puternice - dar trebuie sa ai o intelegere adanca a lor si bineinteles sa fii mai mult in biserica - si fara de grija.




__________________

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Vechi 11.04.2012, 19:23:58
florin.oltean75's Avatar
florin.oltean75 florin.oltean75 is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 23.03.2011
Religia: Ortodox
Mesaje: 2.933
Implicit

TARAMURILE FORMEI (RUPA LOKA)


Bṛhatphala worlds

The mental state of the devas of the Bṛhatphala worlds corresponds to the fourth dhyāna, and is characterized by equanimity (upekṣā).

The Bṛhatphala worlds form the upper limit to the destruction of the universe by wind at the end of a mahākalpa (see Temporal cosmology below), that is, they are spared such destruction.


"Unconscious beings" -Asaññasatta (Sanskrit: Asaṃjñasattva) (Vibhajyavāda tradition only) –, devas who have attained a high dhyāna (similar to that of the Formless Realm), and, wishing to avoid the perils of perception, have achieved a state of non-perception in which they endure for a time.

After a while, however, perception arises again and they fall into a lower state.



"Having great fruit" - Bṛhatphala or Vehapphala (Tib: 'bras bu che) – Devas

Their lifespan is 500 mahākalpas (Vibhajyavāda tradition).

Some Anāgāmins are reborn here.

The height of this world is 5,242,880 yojanas above the Earth.

(approximately the distance of Venus from Earth)


The world of the devas who are the "offspring of merit"- Puṇyaprasava (Sarvāstivāda tradition only; Tib: bsod nams skyes) –

The height of this world is 2,621,440 yojanas above the Earth.

The world of the "cloudless" devas - Anabhraka (Sarvāstivāda tradition only; Tib: sprin med).

The height of this world is 1,310,720 yojanas above the Earth.



Šubhakṛtsna worlds

The mental state of the devas of the Šubhakṛtsna worlds corresponds to the third dhyāna, and is characterized by a quiet joy (sukha).

These devas have bodies that radiate a steady light.

The Šubhakṛtsna worlds form the upper limit to the destruction of the universe by water at the end of a mahākalpa, that is, the flood of water does not rise high enough to reach them.


The world of devas of "total beauty" - Šubhakṛtsna or Subhakiṇṇa / Subhakiṇha (Tib: dge rgyas)

Their lifespan is 64 mahākalpas (some sources: 4 mahākalpas) according to the Vibhajyavāda tradition.

64 mahākalpas is the interval between destructions of the universe by wind, including the Šubhakṛtsna worlds.

The height of this world is 655,360 yojanas above the Earth.



The world of devas of "limitless beauty" - Apramāṇa¶ubha or Appamāṇasubha (Tib: tshad med dge)

Their lifespan is 32 mahākalpas (Vibhajyavāda tradition).

They possess "faith, virtue, learning, munificence and wisdom".

The height of this world is 327,680 yojanas above the Earth.


The world of devas of "limited beauty" - Parītta¶ubha or Parittasubha (Tib: dge chung)

Their lifespan is 16 mahākalpas.

The height of this world is 163,840 yojanas above the Earth.



Ābhāsvara worlds

The mental state of the devas of the Ābhāsvara worlds corresponds to the second dhyāna, and is characterized by delight (prīti) as well as joy (sukha);

the Ābhāsvara devas are said to shout aloud in their joy, crying "Oh joy!".

These devas have bodies that emit flashing rays of light like lightning.

They are said to have similar bodies (to each other) but diverse perceptions.


The Ābhāsvara worlds form the upper limit to the destruction of the universe by fire at the end of a mahākalpa, that is, the column of fire does not rise high enough to reach them.

After the destruction of the world, at the beginning of the vivartakalpa, the worlds are first populated by beings reborn from the Ābhāsvara worlds.



The world of devas "possessing splendor" - Ābhāsvara or Ābhassara (Tib: 'od gsal).

The lifespan of the Ābhāsvara devas is 8 mahākalpas (others: 2 mahākalpas).

Eight mahākalpas is the interval between destructions of the universe by water, which includes the Ābhāsvara worlds.

The height of this world is 81,920 yojanas above the Earth.



The world of devas of "limitless light" - Apramāṇābha or Appamāṇābha (Tib: tshad med 'od)

Their lifespan is 4 mahākalpas.

The height of this world is 40,960 yojanas above the Earth.



The world of devas of "limited light"-Parīttābha or Parittābha (Tib: 'od chung).

Their lifespan is 2 mahākalpas.

The height of this world is 20,480 yojanas above the Earth.


Brahmā worlds

The mental state of the devas of the Brahmā worlds corresponds to the first dhyāna, and is characterized by observation (vitarka) and reflection (vicāra) as well as delight (prīti) and joy (sukha).

The Brahmā worlds, together with the other lower worlds of the universe, are destroyed by fire at the end of a mahākalpa (see Temporal cosmology below).



The world of "Great Brahmā", Mahābrahmā (Tib: tshangs pa chen po) believed by many to be the creator of the world, and having as his titles "Brahmā, Great Brahmā, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.

" According to the Brahmajāla Sutta (DN.1), a Mahābrahmā is a being from the Ābhāsvara worlds who falls into a lower world through exhaustion of his merits and is reborn alone in the Brahma-world;

forgetting his former existence, he imagines himself to have come into existence without cause.

Note that even such a high-ranking deity has no intrinsic knowledge of the worlds above his own.

Mahābrahmā is 1 ½ yojanas tall.

His lifespan variously said to be 1 kalpa (Vibhajyavāda tradition) or 1 ½ kalpas long (Sarvāstivāda tradition), although it would seem that it could be no longer than ¾ of a mahākalpa, i.e., all of the mahākalpa except for the Saṃvartasthāyikalpa, because that is the total length of time between the rebuilding of the lower world and its destruction.

It is unclear what period of time "kalpa" refers to in this case.

The height of this world is 10,240 yojanas above the Earth.



The "Ministers of Brahmā" Brahmapurohita (Tib: tshangs 'khor) are beings, also originally from the Ābhāsvara worlds, that are born as companions to Mahābrahmā after he has spent some time alone.

Since they arise subsequent to his thought of a desire for companions, he believes himself to be their creator, and they likewise believe him to be their creator and lord.

They are 1 yojana in height and their lifespan is variously said to be ½ of a kalpa (Vibhajyavāda tradition) or a whole kalpa (Sarvāstivāda tradition).

If they are later reborn in a lower world, and come to recall some part of their last existence, they teach the doctrine of Brahmā as creator as a revealed truth.

The height of this world is 5,120 yojanas above the Earth.



The "Councilors of Brahmā" - Brahmapāriṣadya or Brahmapārisajja (Tib: tshangs ris) or the devas "belonging to the assembly of Brahmā".

They are also called Brahmakāyika, but this name can be used for any of the inhabitants of the Brahma-worlds.

They are half a yojana in height and their lifespan is variously said to be ⅓ of a kalpa (Vibhajyavāda tradition) or ½ of a kalpa (Sarvāstivāda tradition).

The height of this world is 2,560 yojanas above the Earth.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Vechi 11.04.2012, 19:57:01
florin.oltean75's Avatar
florin.oltean75 florin.oltean75 is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 23.03.2011
Religia: Ortodox
Mesaje: 2.933
Implicit

DESIRE REALM (KĀMA RUPA)


The beings born in the Kāmadhātu (Pāli: Kāmaloka; Tib: 'dod pa'i khams) differ in degree of happiness, but they are all, other than arhats and Buddhas, under the domination of Māra and are bound by sensual desire, which causes them suffering.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Vechi 11.04.2012, 20:02:40
florin.oltean75's Avatar
florin.oltean75 florin.oltean75 is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 23.03.2011
Religia: Ortodox
Mesaje: 2.933
Implicit

TARAMURILE PATIMASE (KAMA LOKA)


RAIURILE

The following four worlds are bounded planes each 80,000 yojanas square, which float in the air above the top of Mount Sumeru.

Although all of the worlds inhabited by devas (that is, all the worlds down to the Cāturmahārājikakāyika world and sometimes including the Asuras) are sometimes called "heavens", in the western sense of the word the term best applies to the four worlds listed below:

The heaven of devas "with power over (others') creations" - Parinirmita-va¶avartin or Paranimmita-vasavatti (Tib: gzhan 'phrul dbang byed)

These devas do not create pleasing forms that they desire for themselves, but their desires are fulfilled by the acts of other devas who wish for their favor.

The ruler of this world is called Va¶avartin (Pāli: Vasavatti), who has longer life, greater beauty, more power and happiness and more delightful sense-objects than the other devas of his world.

This world is also the home of the devaputra (being of divine race) called Māra, who endeavors to keep all beings of the Kāmadhātu in the grip of sensual pleasures.

Māra is also sometimes called Va¶avartin, but in general these two dwellers in this world are kept distinct.

The beings of this world are 4,500 feet (1,400 m) tall and live for 9,216,000,000 years (Sarvāstivāda tradition).

The height of this world is 1,280 yojanas above the Earth.



The world of devas "delighting in their creations" - Nirmāṇarati or Nimmānaratī (Tib: 'phrul dga' )

The devas of this world are capable of making any appearance to please themselves.

The lord of this world is called Sunirmita (Pāli Sunimmita); his wife is the rebirth of Visākhā, formerly the chief of the upāsikās (female lay devotees) of the Buddha.

The beings of this world are 3,750 feet (1,140 m) tall and live for 2,304,000,000 years (Sarvāstivāda tradition).

The height of this world is 640 yojanas above the Earth.



The world of the "joyful" devas - Tuṣita or Tusita (Tib: dga' ldan)

This world is best known for being the world in which a Bodhisattva lives before being reborn in the world of humans.

Until a few thousand years ago, the Bodhisattva of this world was Švetaketu (Pāli: Setaketu), who was reborn as Siddhārtha, who would become the Buddha Šākyamuni; since then the Bodhisattva has been Nātha (or Nāthadeva) who will be reborn as Ajita and will become the Buddha Maitreya (Pāli Metteyya).

While this Bodhisattva is the foremost of the dwellers in Tuṣita, the ruler of this world is another deva called Santuṣita (Pāli: Santusita).

The beings of this world are 3,000 feet (910 m) tall and live for 576,000,000 years (Sarvāstivāda tradition).

The height of this world is 320 yojanas above the Earth.



The "heaven without fighting" - Yāma (Tib: 'thab bral) –because it is the lowest of the heavens to be physically separated from the tumults of the earthly world.

These devas live in the air, free of all difficulties.

Its ruler is the deva Suyāma; according to some, his wife is the rebirth of Sirimā, a courtesan of Rājagṛha in the Buddha's time who was generous to the monks.

The beings of this world are 2,250 feet (690 m) tall and live for 144,000,000 years (Sarvāstivāda tradition).

The height of this world is 160 yojanas above the Earth.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Vechi 11.04.2012, 22:42:45
Demetrius Demetrius is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 02.04.2012
Mesaje: 3.142
Implicit Budhism

Doamne ajută!
Citat:
În prealabil postat de florin.oltean75 Vezi mesajul
...Eu cred in Isus cu tot sufletul - dar doresc sa pot face si faptele Lui.
Ce te reține?

Citat:
În prealabil postat de florin.oltean75 Vezi mesajul
Se spune: iubeste pe apropele tau ca pe tine insuti!

Dar nu se spune cum se ajunge la aceasta virtute suprema in zgomotul lumii.

Avem doar indemnuri - insa fara metode ale mintii.
Aceste metode ale minții, dacă nu pornesc din inimă, pot înainta puțin, dar nu pot străpunge limitele intelctuale; dacă pornesc din suflet, mintea se adaptează la ele și le adoptă, în orice zgomot al lumii. După Isus Cristos mulți alții au mai dovedit-o.

Mintea(intelectul) este o rezultantă a acestei epoci(veac) și nu poate pătrunde dimensiuni ale veșniciei pentru că accesează nivele imaculate, pure, și, datorită incompatibilității, este respinsă (sau distrusă) pentru că aduce cu sine multă impuritate. Numai sufletele curate(iubitoare) pot intra acolo, mințile nu.
Renumiți asceți, adepți ai meditației, precum Krishnamurti, Maharishi, Osho, Vivikenanda, Castaneda, Aurobindo și alții au murit TOȚI de cancer(n-o spun eu, ci Valery Uvarov) tocmai pentru că au forțat incorect ”urcarea” la nivele de puritate față de care ei s-au dovedit nevrednici. Desigur că în acele nivele se deschid viziuni, puteri și hipersensibilități mult superioare, la care omul n-are dreptul dacă e numai om, dacă nu se autodepășește, iar mintea nu e capabilă de asta, numai inima; adică nu asceza, ci credința.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Vechi 12.04.2012, 20:50:47
florin.oltean75's Avatar
florin.oltean75 florin.oltean75 is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 23.03.2011
Religia: Ortodox
Mesaje: 2.933
Implicit

Citat:
În prealabil postat de Demetrius Vezi mesajul
Doamne ajută!Ce te reține?

Aceste metode ale minții, dacă nu pornesc din inimă, pot înainta puțin, dar nu pot străpunge limitele intelctuale; dacă pornesc din suflet, mintea se adaptează la ele și le adoptă, în orice zgomot al lumii. După Isus Cristos mulți alții au mai dovedit-o.

Mintea(intelectul) este o rezultantă a acestei epoci(veac) și nu poate pătrunde dimensiuni ale veșniciei pentru că accesează nivele imaculate, pure, și, datorită incompatibilității, este respinsă (sau distrusă) pentru că aduce cu sine multă impuritate. Numai sufletele curate(iubitoare) pot intra acolo, mințile nu.
Renumiți asceți, adepți ai meditației, precum Krishnamurti, Maharishi, Osho, Vivikenanda, Castaneda, Aurobindo și alții au murit TOȚI de cancer(n-o spun eu, ci Valery Uvarov) tocmai pentru că au forțat incorect ”urcarea” la nivele de puritate față de care ei s-au dovedit nevrednici. Desigur că în acele nivele se deschid viziuni, puteri și hipersensibilități mult superioare, la care omul n-are dreptul dacă e numai om, dacă nu se autodepășește, iar mintea nu e capabilă de asta, numai inima; adică nu asceza, ci credința.
Faptele Lui Hristos sunt sustinute de o iubire neconditionata, atotpatrunzatoare.

Fapte exterioare se pot face relativ usor (daca iti impui aceasta), de la spalatul picioarelor aproapelui pana la milostenie - pentru ca asa este bine.

Faptele interioare (miscarile iubitoare, sincere ale inimii care insotesc faptele exterioare) sunt mai dificil de exprimat - pentru ca inima este salbaticita si nu asculta.

In crestinism avem un indemn in acest sens si un exemplu magistral.
Prin binecuvantari si rugaciuni se poate ajunge la aceasta dragoste adevarata, nefabricata.

In budism insa avem in plus si explicatii detaliate, progresive despre cum se imblanzeste inima in dragostea pentru toate fiintele, fara discriminare - Metoda prezentata de Atisha ("Cauza si efect in sapte etape") si metoda prezentata de Shantideva ("Egalizarea si schimbarea sinelui cu celelalte fiinte").

----------------------

Mintea este esentiala pentru 'respiratia' inimii.

Fara minte nici macar nu se poate intelege evanghelia,
nu se poate angaja niciun efort spiritual - pentru ca este nevoie de intelegere.

Dragostea hristica nu este un dat, ci un rezultat al intelegerii si reeditarii mentale a patimilor Lui Hristos, in mod repetat - nevointa a mintii care aprinde progresiv focul inimii.

Numai atunci cand inima va arde cu putere vom fi eliberati de greutatea mintii, care va fi rapita in insasi inima Lui Hristos.

-------------------------------
Cancerul nu este o boala specifica pacatosilor care se semetesc.

Un derapaj de rationament, adesea intalnit in cazurile in care se combat alte perspective spirituale.

-----------------------------
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Vechi 13.04.2012, 20:49:37
florin.oltean75's Avatar
florin.oltean75 florin.oltean75 is offline
Senior Member
 
Data înregistrării: 23.03.2011
Religia: Ortodox
Mesaje: 2.933
Implicit

Temporal cosmology

Buddhist temporal cosmology describes how the universe comes into being and is dissolved.

Like other Indian cosmologies, it assumes an infinite span of time and is cyclical.

This does not mean that the same events occur in identical form with each cycle, but merely that, as with the cycles of day and night or summer and winter, certain natural events occur over and over to give some structure to time.


The basic unit of time measurement is the mahākalpa or "Great Eon".

The exact length of this time in human years is never defined exactly, but it is meant to be very long, to be measured in billions of years if not longer.


A mahākalpa is divided into four kalpas or "eons", each distinguished from the others by the stage of evolution of the universe during that kalpa.

The four kalpas are:

  • Vivartakalpa "Eon of evolution" – during this kalpa the universe comes into existence.



  • Vivartasthāyikalpa "Eon of evolution-duration" – during this kalpa the universe remains in existence in a steady state.



  • Saṃvartakalpa "Eon of dissolution" – during this kalpa the universe dissolves.



  • Saṃvartasthāyikalpa "Eon of dissolution-duration" – during this kalpa the universe remains in a state of emptiness.



Each one of these kalpas is divided into 20 antarakalpas (Pāli antarakappa, "inside eons") each of about the same length.

For the Saṃvartasthāyikalpa this division is merely nominal, as nothing changes from one antarakalpa to the next;
but for the other three kalpas it marks an interior cycle within the kalpa.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Răspunde