[Erethorn]

În prealabil postat de catalin2

Topicul acesta l-am deschis in primul rand pentru ortodocsi, dar am fost deschis sa discut si cu persoane cu care se poate purta o discutie amiabila.
In niciun caz nu doresc o conversatie cu userul Erethorn, cu care nu vreau sa pastrez o relatie de indiferenta, fiindu-mi dezagreabil ca persoana.
Ca sa raspund minciunii sale
Reamintesc ca nu doresc niciun fel de dialog cu userul Erethorn, desi cateodata are intrebari pertinente imi este respingator ca persoana. In cel mai bun caz poate ruga pe dl. Mihnea sa le posteze.

Dacă nu doriţi dialog, nu mai postaţi.

Iată un link cu nenumărate informaţii utile care demonstrează că, dimpotrivă, ceea ce susţineţi dumneavoastră este o minciună. În mediile catolice, ideea pe care o susţineţi se numeşte erezia Feeney-stă, care este demontată în mod magistral aici:

http://www.the-pope.com/BOB_BOD_BOK.html#I6

Vom demonstra că nu ştiţi despre ce vorbiţi, şi vom arăta că această idee fundamentală, a mântuirii prin Biserică a celor aflaţi, din neştiinţă şi fără vină subiectivă, în afara cadrului instituţional al Bisericii, nu este nicidecum nouă, sau o invenţia a Conciliului Vatican II, ci a fost susţinută în toate timpurile, inclusiv de Sfinţii Părinţi, şi că această idee nu este în contradicţie cu dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

Pentru început, un citat din Papa Pius IX, anul 1854, adică cu o sută de ani înainte de Vatican II:

Singulari Quadem: "We have learned with grief that another error, not less melancholy, is introduced into certain parts of the Catholic world, and has taken possession of the souls of many Catholics. Carried away with a hope for the eternal salvation of those who are out of the true Church of Christ, they do not cease to inquire with solicitude what shall be the fate and the condition after death of men who are not submissive to the Catholic faith. Seduced by vain reasoning they make to these questions replies conformably to that perverse doctrine. Far from Us, Venerable Brothers, to lay claim to put limits to the Divine mercy, which is infinite! Far from Us to scrutinize the counsels and mysterious judgments of God, unfathomable depth where human thought cannot penetrate! But it belongs to the duty of Our Apostolic office to excite your Episcopal solicitude and vigilance to make all possible efforts to remove from the minds of men the opinion, as impious as it is fatal, according to which people can find in any religion the way of eternal salvation. Employ all the resources of your minds and of your learning to demonstrate to the people committed to your care that the dogmas of the Catholic faith are in no respect contrary to the Divine mercy and justice. Faith orders Us to hold that out of the Apostolic Roman Church no person can be saved, that it is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever will not enter therein shall perish in the waters of the deluge.

On the other hand, it must likewise be held as certain that those who are affected by ignorance of the true religion, if it is invincible ignorance, are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord. Now, then, who could presume in himself an ability to set the boundaries of such ignorance, taking into consideration the natural differences of peoples, lands, native talents, and so many other factors? Only when we have been released from the bonds of this body and see God just as He is (1 John 3:2) shall we really understand how close and beautiful a bond joins divine mercy with divine justice. But as long as we dwell on earth, encumbered with this soul-dulling, mortal body, let us tenaciously cling to the Catholic doctrine that there is one God, one faith, one baptism (Eph. 4:5); to seek to penetrate further is not permitted.