ci preoti "presviteri" pamantesti :)...

e vreunu din voi bolnavi sa cheme presviterii bisericii sa-l unga cu untdelemn si sa se roage pentru el (Iacov 5)...

Binenteles. Am explicat cu doua postari mai inainte:

"Presbiter este sinonim cu batran. De aici vin si cuvintele derivate ca de exemplu "presbitie" care desemneaza un defect de vedere datorat unei scaderi a acomodarii cristalinului din cauza avansarii in varsta, apare la batranete. Si cum am zis mai inainte, fiind un cuvant de origine greceasca, i-am intrebat pe greci ce inseamna exact la ei si mi-au zis ca acest cuvant desemneaza o persoana inteleapta, de obicei in varsta, la care lumea vine sa ceara sfat. Nici o legatura cu cuvantul preot."

Si nici macar nu sunt o inventie a NT, ci batranii existau si in VT. Ce cuvant foloseau grecii in VT pentru "batrani"? Daca cineva stie cumva, daca nu o sa il intreb pe preotul de aici dupa vacanta.

Cu cea mai mare placere va raspund. Onctiunea ce se facea preotului in VT pentru a-l sfinti, pe el si toate lucrurile lui, acum se face la toti cei botezati ortodocsi, barbati si femei, si respectiv baietei si fetite. Concluzia va las sa o deduceti singur :)

nu te mai prostii..

Ignatius of Antioch

"Indeed, when you submit to the bishop as you would to Jesus Christ, it is clear to me that you are living not in the manner of men but as Jesus Christ, who died for us, that through faith in his death you might escape dying. It is necessary, therefore—and such is your practice that you do nothing without the bishop, and that you be subject also to the presbytery, as to the apostles of Jesus Christ our hope, in whom we shall be found, if we live in him. It is necessary also that the deacons, the dispensers of the mysteries [sacraments] of Jesus Christ, be in every way pleasing to all men. For they are not the deacons of food and drink, but servants of the Church of God. They must therefore guard against blame as against fire" (Letter to the Trallians 2:1–3 [A.D. 110]).

"In like manner let everyone respect the deacons as they would respect Jesus Christ, and just as they respect the bishop as a type of the Father, and the presbyters as the council of God and college of the apostles. Without these, it cannot be called a church. I am confident that you accept this, for I have received the exemplar of your love and have it with me in the person of your bishop. His very demeanor is a great lesson and his meekness is his strength. I believe that even the godless do respect him" (ibid., 3:1–2).

"He that is within the sanctuary is pure; but he that is outside the sanctuary is not pure. In other words, anyone who acts without the bishop and the presbytery and the deacons does not have a clear conscience" (ibid., 7:2).

Hippolytus


"When a deacon is to be ordained, he is chosen after the fashion of those things said above, the bishop alone in like manner imposing his hands upon him as we have prescribed. In the ordaining of a deacon, this is the reason why the bishop alone is to impose his hands upon him: he is not ordained to the priesthood, but to serve the bishop and to fulfill the bishop’s command. He has no part in the council of the clergy, but is to attend to his own duties and is to acquaint the bishop with such matters as are needful. . . .

"On a presbyter, however, let the presbyters impose their hands because of the common and like Spirit of the clergy. Even so, the presbyter has only the power to receive [the Spirit], and not the power to give [the Spirit]. That is why a presbyter does not ordain the clergy; for at the ordaining of a presbyter, he but seals while the bishop ordains.

Council of Nicaea I


"It has come to the knowledge of the holy and great synod that, in some districts and cities, the deacons administer the Eucharist to the presbyters [i.e., priests], whereas neither canon nor custom permits that they who have no right to offer [the Eucharistic sacrifice] should give the Body of Christ to them that do offer [it]. And this also has been made known, that certain deacons now touch the Eucharist even before the bishops. Let all such practices be utterly done away, and let the deacons remain within their own bounds, knowing that they are the ministers of the bishop and the inferiors of the presbyters. Let them receive the Eucharist according to their order, after the presbyters, and let either the bishop or the presbyter administer to them" (Canon 18 [A.D. 325]).

John Chrysostom


"[In Philippians 1:1 Paul says,] ‘To the co-bishops and deacons.’ What does this mean? Were there plural bishops of some city? Certainly not! It is the presbyters that [Paul] calls by this title; for these titles were then interchangeable, and the bishop is even called a deacon. That is why, when writing to Timothy, he says, ‘Fulfill your diaconate’ [2 Tim. 4:5], although Timothy was then a bishop. That he was in fact a bishop is clear when Paul says to him, ‘Lay hands on no man lightly’ [1 Tim. 5:22], and again, ‘Which was given you with the laying on of hands of the presbytery’ [1 Tim. 4:14], and presbyters would not have ordained a bishop" (Homilies on Philippians 1:1 [A.D. 402]).

Nicidecum sa derive cuvantul preot din prezbiter. Va repet explicatia data mai inainte:
"Presbiter este sinonim cu batran. De aici vin si cuvintele derivate ca de exemplu "presbitie" care desemneaza un defect de vedere datorat unei scaderi a acomodarii cristalinului din cauza avansarii in varsta, apare la batranete. Si cum am zis mai inainte, fiind un cuvant de origine greceasca, i-am intrebat pe greci ce inseamna exact la ei si mi-au zis ca acest cuvant desemneaza o persoana inteleapta, de obicei in varsta, la care lumea vine sa ceara sfat. Nici o legatura cu cuvantul preot."

In VT existau preotii, exista cuvantul preot si nu folosea deloc "prezbiter" pentru asta ci dimpotriva, batranii existau si ei.
Ce cuvant folosesc grecii in VT pentru batrani? Va intreb ca sa aflu raspunsul, ca pana acum nu m-a interesat. Dar o sa ii intreb oricum si pe greci.

@stefan florin
Din cate stiu eu prezbiter (Πρεσβυτερος) s-ar traduce cu „ batran al Bisericii” si desemneaza o functie, un ordin in Biserica primara, asa cum erau diaconii sau episcopii.

Timotei era tot din categoria batranilor chiar daca era tanar. Episcopii erau mai mari peste batrani. Si nu exista "parohie" ci "dregatorie".

Reluati pasajul cu punerea mainilor la care va referiti ca sa vedeti la ce se refera exact acea punere a mainilor si apoi discutam. Recititi contextul.

Si ma bucur ca ati inteles de ce prin Hristos suntem toti preoti. In religia catolica se spune clar ca suntemi cu totii Sacerdote (preot), Profet si Rege, exact functiile Domnului.

Dar nu este (numai) un ordin din Biserica primară, ci şi în Biserica de azi, care e aceeaşi. Oridinul presbiteral nu a fost abolit niciodată. Când spunem "preot", de obicei la un preot din ordinul acesta ne gândim.

De câte ori fac un pomelnic, le menţionez pe bunicile mele "presvitera Zâna" şi "presvitera Ileana".

Existenţa preoţilor (presbiteroi), a supraveghetorilor lor (episkopoi) precum şi existenţa diaconilor este evidentă atât în Biblie cât şi în Tradiţie. Ca şi modalitatea lor de investire, hirotonia, păstrată până azi.

Denigrare??? Pai le-am spus EXACT ceea ce spuneti voi aici despre Ortodoxie: singura mantuitoare, singura cu Har dupa 1054, erezia Filioque ca motiv de schisma, existenta atator moaste cu trup conservat din care izvoraste mir si prin care se fac minuni, decizia Patriarhiei romane din 2008 de a refuza Impartasania celor care se Impartasesc la altii. Si acum zici ca-i barfa???
SUNT EI CEI CARE AU BARFIT BISERICA ORTODOXA!! Pentru ca sunt niste inchisi si care in plus nu se inteleg intre ei!! Si eu stiam de exemplu ca intr-un an, de ziua Ortodoxiei, grecii nu au mai vrut sa celebreze si cu ceilalti DAR NU LE-AM SPUS!! Am spus numai cele cu care se lauda Ortodoxia din cele ce spuneti voi!! Si exact DIMPOTRIVA, faptul ca eu eram acolo i-a surprins in mod pozitiv si m-au intrebat CUM DE EU SUNT ATAT DE DESCHISA? Nici vorba de barfa, am spus numai varianta VOASTRA!!
Si mai ales la partea cu Filioque, cand le-am explicat de ce ortodocsii sunt contra, m-au intrebat: SI DE CE NU STAU LA DISCUTII SI CU NOI CA SA NE SPUNA TOATE ASTEA PENTRU CA NOI HABAR NU AVEAM CA ASA STA TREABA CU FILIOQUE!

Cat despre pierderea identitatii culturale a Frantei, te inseli teribil, este tara cea mai conservatoare din Europa, si asta o spun toti strainii care ajung aici. Francezii au o rezistenta nativa la schimbare venita din afara.